Arizona... can of worms, I know

[Betty]

This is my point, and it's directed at the "Immigrants are just taking the jobs Americans are too lazy to do" yellers.

I have worked with illegal workers most of my life. They were given the jobs where they would literally work 7 days a week (including Thanksgiving and Christmas), 12 to 16 hour days, with safety systems bypassed "because it makes the machines run slower", were often not even given safety harnesses or helmets "If you want one, buy it yourself.", and worked for minimum wage.

People died at my old jobs. I can't even count how many fingers and hands got chopped off by heavy machinery that had safety guards removed.

Why did these guys do it? They had communities back home in Central and South America where there were NO jobs, NO money. Their kids were literally starving to death. These guys found a cheap rent house in the ghetto in Dallas,crammed as many of them in there as they could, lived off of canned beans and ramen, and sent almost all their money back home

Texas is a "right to work" state. By the laws of Texas, an employer can require you to literally work 24/7. If you tell him you can't cause you need sleep, you get fired for job abandonment.

You want Americans getting a shot at the menial labor? Bring working conditions, wages, and safety standards up to what is ethically right.

You can't keep desperately poor people out of a prosperous nation. If it means death to them and their family to follow the law, they're gonna break the law. Oh, and my coworkers were engineers and welders back home. Often working as mechanics in the factories I was in.

[slim]

What do you propose? Opening borders to the south and opening our arms to whomever wants to enjoy life in America?

I mean its fucked any way you cut it.

[Pru]

easily solved with work permits and what should have been done all along but is not - fine the fuck out of the employers who hire and exploit illegals. THEY are the real cause of the problem. I mean fucking DUH. However in reality, the government doesn't want to solve the immigration "problem." It's an issue that divides and distracts Americans from the real problems in this country.

[Betty]

I don't have a solution. But I'm tired of hearing people talking about their tax money going to lazy illegals.

I do have a few opinions though:
1. Make marijuana a legal controlled substance, just like alcohol or tobacco. This would be catastrophic for the drug cartels.
2. Work visas for non-Americans.
3. OSHA making the inspections it's supposed to already be doing, to ensure relatively safe factories.
4. Fine the heck out of companies that use non-visa-holding non-Americans.
5. Reform work conditions (preferably on a national level, but state level would also work) so that people don't die from exhaustion on the job, or get fired for job abandonment.

Finally, I want people to change their perceptions of illegals. I worked with a bird feeder who was a surgeon back home. A SURGEON. I worked with a temp whose job was to just push buttons on a machine, but when the machine went down, he was the first one under there, getting it running again. When I learned enough Spanish to talk to him, he said he was an engineer at an auto plant that closed. I know these are the exceptions, not the norms, but we have this sense of superiority over these guys crossing our borders. But when you get down to it, they're PEOPLE.

[pmahnn]

If people are willing to risk their lives to cross the desert or travel in a cargo container, no law in Arizona is going to stop them from continuing that. The only thing that can work is to punish severely the companies and people who hire illegal immigrant workers. 3 strikes and you're shut down? I do not, in any way, think it's cool to punish an individual who is simply trying to make a better life for themselves and their family. They are risking their lives and taking full advantage of what this country has to offer; jobs.

I do, however, think it's asinine that this new law would put illegals in prison. WTF? How is spending MORE money to house them a correctional facility going to do anything? Also, worthless illegals who are criminals should be put in a plane with a parachute and kicked out over Mexico. Fuck you and your gangster lifestyle.

Also, of course legalize and intelligently control drugs. No illegal drugs, no cartels, no headless bodies showing up in Phoenix. Duh. And that has the additional benefit of freeing up tons of federal and local agents to enforce our already existing immigration laws.

[slim]

Legalizing marijuana will not hurt the cartels, there's not enough money in it. Legalizing cocaine would crush their economy. 90% of weed in the states is grown in California.

I agree there is no solution to the border issues. Should we let people freely come across the border? HELL NO. Should we spend mucho tax dollars attempting to secure the border? HELL NO.

Good luck politicians.

[Lox]

Legal marijuana, or better yet rescheduling it to schedule II, certainly would help reduce cartel profits. The split is 50/50 domestic and imported weed consumed here... I can find the stats if I need to.

Of course, for all the weed they import, it is not as lucrative as coke by a long shot. Good luck getting popular support for legal coke. It's a helluva drug.

[pmahnn]

90% of weed in the states is grown in California.

Not quite. Kentucky and Tennessee combined are a little less than California. Not to say California doesn't grow a lot, but nowhere near 90% of the weed in the states is grown in California. Not to mention there's still plenty of Mexican ditch weed floating around in at least this shithole city.

[slim]

I don't believe you.

[RockPharmer]

Legal marijuana, or better yet rescheduling it to schedule II, certainly would help reduce cartel profits.

how do you figure? cocaine is schedule II.

[Lox]

http://www.drugscience.org/Archive/bcr2/domstprod.html\

Domestic facts

http://www.drugscience.org/Archive/bcr2/intro.html

Foregin vs. domestic.

The 2005 report also included the identical claim:

“Cannabis (marijuana) production and consumption is a serious problem in many countries—including the United States, where it is by far the most widely used illicit drug. More than 10,000 metric tons of domestic marijuana and more than 5,000 metric tons of marijuana cultivated and harvested in Mexico and Canada is marketed to more than 20 million users in the United States.

[Lox]

Legal marijuana, or better yet rescheduling it to schedule II, certainly would help reduce cartel profits.

how do you figure? cocaine is schedule II.

I forgot a "I."

[RockPharmer]

not following ya.

[Lox]

The feds should reschedule cannabis to Schedule III and let states that have medical marijuana laws handle it that way.

Of course, I believe all use is theraputic and medicinal/recreational isn't much of a distinction. I think even climbers should be able to get scripts for joint and muscle pain. It would push distribution and regulation of sale to minors into a pharmacy/dispensary model as well.

And alleviate some demand (and profits) for foreign grown weed, increase rights of states to govern themselves, and decrease the size and power of the federal government, all good things (imho).

[RockPharmer]

my professional opinion (take that for whatever it's worth) is to remove it completely from the DEA's hands, give it to ATF and make it available to all. i've said it before: medical marijuana is a joke. but i'm not against giving it to the people that want it.

fwiw, iowa (yeah, iowa) was trying to reschedule it to C-II

[toivo]

universal mobility rights

[pmahnn]

Invade mexico. Only reasonable option at this point.

[toivo]

one world and all.

love is the answer. how do we provide incentives for cross-border capital flows to people? family remittances are one way. interesting that they want to send something back. the ethical distinction here is between those who want to give it away and those who want to keep it for themselves. the lovers and the loveless.

free trade means freedom for people to travel

[KIX]

yeah our state govt is nazi.

and we all carry concealed weapons legally.

we rock climb, drink booze and shoot guns.

so just stay away.

all y'all

[Whiteflash]

Welcome to the conditions global wage arbitrage bring to rich countries with higher standards of living. You need to go talk to China and some of the other poor exporter nations of Southeast Asia and get them to start sharing the wealth of their export machine with the greater population. As long as cheap energy allows us to export/import shit from all over the world the cheapest labor will keep the 'jobs'. Seeing as China and their ilk are using their rural poor as slaves in the modern world any factories in rich countries must shape up or die. Those hard working Mexican laborers aren't stupid, they're just trying to get the job done as best they can to keep sending money back home. This is a global complex global problem with a complex answer that will be very difficult to solve through normal channels. I'm willing to bet our species coming energy crisis will help solve some of it.